Ya se había mencionado, y es que ese es otro problema de las reglas/estructura. El mismo Dennis lo dijo justo después de la celebración de podio, Charlie dijo ok pero son los comisarios los que deciden al finalCesar escribió:OJO LO KE DICE ESTE ARTICULO
ero más allá de las alegaciones de su piloto, Whitmarsh tiene un argumento incluso de más peso que, en opinión de la escudería, justifica la necesidad de revisar el caso: "Preguntamos a la Dirección de Carrera si les había parecido correcta la forma en la que Lewis había dejado adelantarse de nuevo por Kimi. Nos confirmaron dos veces que el procedimiento había sido adecuado y que todo estaba OK". Para Whitmarsh, si la Dirección de Carrera se hubiera pronunciado en otro sentido la situación aún hubiera podido resolverse: "Si ellos nos hubieran comunicado cualquier duda sobre la acción de Lewis, de inmediato le habríamos dado instrucciones a nuestro piloto para dejarse adelantar una segunda vez".
EL DIRECTOR DE CARRERA LES DICE KE TODO ESTA BIEN.......ESTA CLARITO, SI EL DIRECTOR DE CARRERA LES HUBISE DICHO KE NO ENTONCES LE MANDAN LA ORDEN A LEWIS DE DEJAR PASAR A KIMMI...
si corto la chicane esta claro, pero el ekipo pregunto si la maniobra estaba buena y dijeron ke SIIII...
F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
Ilustremos un poquito más sobre los reglamentos... presten atención a los puntos subrayados porque vienen todos al caso. Así que Charlie no es todopoderoso como Whitmarsh lo quiere pintar...
16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Articles 41;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code;
- caused a false start by one or more cars;
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.16.2 a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.
b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards a message informing all teams which driver or drivers are involved will be displayed on the timing monitors.
Provided that such a message is displayed no later than five minutes after the race has finished the driver or drivers concerned may not leave the circuit without the consent of the stewards.
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver's next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.
16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Articles 41;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code;
- caused a false start by one or more cars;
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.16.2 a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.
b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards a message informing all teams which driver or drivers are involved will be displayed on the timing monitors.
Provided that such a message is displayed no later than five minutes after the race has finished the driver or drivers concerned may not leave the circuit without the consent of the stewards.
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver's next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
rickdohc escribió:rickdohc escribió:estan de mas los comentarios
http://sundayafternoonclub.blogs.topgea ... -big-schu/
ferrari fan boys: crik crik crik........................
rick gracias por las sugerencias del video pero en el brete están prohibidos... será en la noche cuando llegue a la casa.
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
ok.. de todas maneras, te adelanto.. shumacher rebasa de manera "ilegal" a PDLR y no le devuelve la posicion, no es sancionado

Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
pmontero escribió:Ilustremos un poquito más sobre los reglamentos... presten atención a los puntos subrayados porque vienen todos al caso. Así que Charlie no es todopoderoso como Whitmarsh lo quiere pintar...
16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Articles 41;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code;
- caused a false start by one or more cars;
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.16.2 a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.
b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards a message informing all teams which driver or drivers are involved will be displayed on the timing monitors.
Provided that such a message is displayed no later than five minutes after the race has finished the driver or drivers concerned may not leave the circuit without the consent of the stewards.
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver's next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.
en eso estamos de acuerdo, el director de carreras es un 0 a la izquierda

Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
No exactamente un cero a la izquierda, pero aquí queda claro que los comisarios pueden también someter a revisión las acciones que consideren necesarias...
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
pmontero escribió:Cesar escribió:OJO LO KE DICE ESTE ARTICULO
EL DIRECTOR DE CARRERA LES DICE KE TODO ESTA BIEN.......ESTA CLARITO, SI EL DIRECTOR DE CARRERA LES HUBISE DICHO KE NO ENTONCES LE MANDAN LA ORDEN A LEWIS DE DEJAR PASAR A KIMMI...
Si si si mae y además de Charlie Whiting también le pidieron permiso a Caperucita, el Lobo y la Abuelita. Ahora es super fácil escudarse en que lo hubieran dejado pasar otra vez. Además Charlie es el director de carrera pero para algo tienen un trío de comisarios deportivos que son quienes evalúan este tipo de cosas.
Es el director de carrera no es ni caperucita ni el lobo es el director de carrera y esta dando el visto bueno aki no es escudarse en ke hubiera cedido la posicion otra vez, es ke se le hizo la consulta al director de carrera y dijo ke todo estaba OK..
O a kien le iban a preguntar al boton del semaforo???
Se le consulto a kien tenia ke ser en el momento ke tenia ke ser
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
para mi la maniobra de Hamilton fue correcta, ya se hizo la penalizacion y se presentaron argumentos del porque... ya se presento la apelacion explicando la situacion... la verdad lo que se diga aqui o no, no va a cambiar el veredicto.. lo unico que queda es esperar a ver que resuelve la FIA...
aunque para mi... la maniobra fue legal...o me van a decir que talvez ferrari hubiera preferido que Hamilton chocara con Kimi y ninguno terminara, en vez de salir de pista...
aunque para mi... la maniobra fue legal...o me van a decir que talvez ferrari hubiera preferido que Hamilton chocara con Kimi y ninguno terminara, en vez de salir de pista...
Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
Pero las reglas dicen claramente que el director de carrera no es el único con autoridad... ahí están los comisarios.
Yo entiendo que digan que en ese momento le preguntaron a Charlie porque era lo práctico y estaba a mano, pero Charlie aunque sea director de carrera no es el Todopoderoso o un único Big Brother de la pista...
Yo entiendo que digan que en ese momento le preguntaron a Charlie porque era lo práctico y estaba a mano, pero Charlie aunque sea director de carrera no es el Todopoderoso o un único Big Brother de la pista...
BUCK FERNIE
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
y esta claro q los reglamentos dicen q tenia q devolver la posicion, cosa q hizo
quizas por eso el director de carreras en su momento, q por cierto es el mismo de siempre, el q da los briefins a los pilotos y el q lidia el dia a dia y carrera tras carrera, vio como OK lo sucedido
quizas por eso el director de carreras en su momento, q por cierto es el mismo de siempre, el q da los briefins a los pilotos y el q lidia el dia a dia y carrera tras carrera, vio como OK lo sucedido

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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
No sé si ya habían puesto este onboard, está tuanis, lástima que cortan la salida del chicane en la vuelta anterior, pero en general se ve que si bien el McLaren frena, corta y acelera mucho mejor, jamás le lleva tanta ventaja como para cazarlo en una recta tan corta, ni siquiera cuando ya lo pasó se le logra despegar mucho a Kimi, hasta que se entrompa :)
Por cierto que caballo ese williams que se atraviesa, claro en esas condiciones debe ser difícil para el mae ver lo que le venía
Y qué rico el slipstream en blanchimont, 7ma y me pareciera que va pegado a las 19000 rpm
[youtube]dWNN5W_B-Zk[/youtube]
Por cierto que caballo ese williams que se atraviesa, claro en esas condiciones debe ser difícil para el mae ver lo que le venía
Y qué rico el slipstream en blanchimont, 7ma y me pareciera que va pegado a las 19000 rpm
[youtube]dWNN5W_B-Zk[/youtube]
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
Esa duda me queda a mí, todo mundo dice que con devolver la posición ya eso fue todo, pero no he visto ningún reglamento que diga que es devolver la posición y ya, más bien dice que no puede sacar ventaja de salirse de la pista si mal no recuerdo, en cuyo caso devolver la posición puede o puede no ser suficiente.rickdohc escribió:y esta claro q los reglamentos dicen q tenia q devolver la posicion, cosa q hizo
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Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
Yo se que ya es hora de que muera el tema, pero no resisto echarle esta leña al fuego :D
http://mccabism.blogspot.com/2008/09/ne ... eward.html
New Labour and Formula 1's Chief Steward

Formula 1's Chief Steward is a man called Alan Donnelly. He 'co-ordinates' the three stewards who officiate at a Grand Prix. Donnelly was Labour Leader in the European Parliament from 1998 to 2000, is now David Miliband's constituency chairman, and is also executive chairman of a lobbying company called Sovereign Strategy. Sovereign Strategy's most valued clients include Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone. Sovereign's clients have also included Ferrari, although, quite mysteriously, it seems that Ferrari's name has recently been removed from Sovereign's website. Thankfully, the previous version of the client list is preserved for posterity on the Internet Archive here. Donnelly won a libel action against Business F1 magazine a few years ago, when it alleged that "Mr Donnelly had obtained exorbitant and undeserved sums from the FIA in the form of €11.05million in fees over the previous three years and that there were reasonable grounds to suspect that, despite what had been publicly stated before, he had diverted all or some of these monies for his personal use and benefit." The case was presided over by Mr Justice Eady, who, coincidentally, presided over Max Mosley's recent successful libel action against The News of the World.
What a small world it can be.
http://mccabism.blogspot.com/2008/09/ne ... eward.html
New Labour and Formula 1's Chief Steward

Formula 1's Chief Steward is a man called Alan Donnelly. He 'co-ordinates' the three stewards who officiate at a Grand Prix. Donnelly was Labour Leader in the European Parliament from 1998 to 2000, is now David Miliband's constituency chairman, and is also executive chairman of a lobbying company called Sovereign Strategy. Sovereign Strategy's most valued clients include Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone. Sovereign's clients have also included Ferrari, although, quite mysteriously, it seems that Ferrari's name has recently been removed from Sovereign's website. Thankfully, the previous version of the client list is preserved for posterity on the Internet Archive here. Donnelly won a libel action against Business F1 magazine a few years ago, when it alleged that "Mr Donnelly had obtained exorbitant and undeserved sums from the FIA in the form of €11.05million in fees over the previous three years and that there were reasonable grounds to suspect that, despite what had been publicly stated before, he had diverted all or some of these monies for his personal use and benefit." The case was presided over by Mr Justice Eady, who, coincidentally, presided over Max Mosley's recent successful libel action against The News of the World.
What a small world it can be.
Re: F1 GP de Bélgica Spa-Francorchamps
lo interesante es saber q hubiera pensado gilles villeneuve de esta BASURA de decision, gracias a dios aun quedan buenos videos de cuando se la tiraba con Rene, eso si eran carreras no esta BASURA q tenemos q soportar hoy en da
gilles debe de estarse revolcando de esta porkerias de decisiones, y aun asi.. los ves pidiendo "mas accion"
f1... what a joke

gilles debe de estarse revolcando de esta porkerias de decisiones, y aun asi.. los ves pidiendo "mas accion"
f1... what a joke


