Italian RAI Radio 1, right now:
"Still no final decisions from Paris despite wild speculations from British media. We will proceed with other news and update you as soon as news arrive"
Y el veredicto es...................
no partes... pueden haber utilizado información de parámetros de seteo de los carros y hasta del acoplamiento con las Bridgestone. Y eso al parecer cuenta como utilizar información ajena.rickdohc escribió:utilizada como?
q partes del mp4-22 son de ferrari o se crearon usando algo de esas 768 paginas?
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en unos de los supuestos correos PDLR le comenta a FA q el ing de ellos tiene informacion de como es q usan los sistemas de frenos los ferrari para acoplarse mejor a las llantas y q ya lo estan probando (segun lo q pude haber leido entre tantas noticias)rickdohc escribió:utilizada como?
q partes del mp4-22 son de ferrari o se crearon usando algo de esas 768 paginas?
no Marvin tampoco esta la palabra robo de por medio... en cuanto a la posesión de información clasificada de otro equipo, recordemos que el veredicto anterior dijo que McLaren era culpable pero no impuso castigo alguno. Eso sí, con la advertencia de que las cosas cambiarían si se demostrara que se utlilizó esa información para obtener una ventaja injusta, artículo 151 inciso c) del código deportivo de la FIA.Marvin Jaén escribió:Fue por el robo de información, no por la implementación de esa información en los autos.
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Popo escribió:en unos de los supuestos correos PDLR le comenta a FA q el ing de ellos tiene informacion de como es q usan los sistemas de frenos los ferrari para acoplarse mejor a las llantas y q ya lo estan probando (segun lo q pude haber leido entre tantas noticias)rickdohc escribió:utilizada como?
q partes del mp4-22 son de ferrari o se crearon usando algo de esas 768 paginas?
interesante.... me gustaria ver el comunicado oficial de esos correos
Incriminating `contents` of email exchange publishedrickdohc escribió:Popo escribió:en unos de los supuestos correos PDLR le comenta a FA q el ing de ellos tiene informacion de como es q usan los sistemas de frenos los ferrari para acoplarse mejor a las llantas y q ya lo estan probando (segun lo q pude haber leido entre tantas noticias)rickdohc escribió:utilizada como?
q partes del mp4-22 son de ferrari o se crearon usando algo de esas 768 paginas?
interesante.... me gustaria ver el comunicado oficial de esos correos
Thursday 13th September 2007
The incriminating contents of the email exchange between Fernando Alonso, Pedro de la Rosa and McLaren's chief engineer Paddy Lowe has been published by the British press.
no es oficial pero está interesante
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 04,00.html
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Marvin Jaén
- 8 cilindros
- Mensajes: 11837
- Registrado: 28 Sep 2005 17:14
pmontero escribió:no Marvin tampoco esta la palabra robo de por medio... en cuanto a la posesión de información clasificada de otro equipo, recordemos que el veredicto anterior dijo que McLaren era culpable pero no impuso castigo alguno. Eso sí, con la advertencia de que las cosas cambiarían si se demostrara que se utlilizó esa información para obtener una ventaja injusta, artículo 151 inciso c) del código deportivo de la FIA.Marvin Jaén escribió:Fue por el robo de información, no por la implementación de esa información en los autos.
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Te lo dejo en "tomaron sin autorización la información"...
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Cansado de ver como 57 VAGOS destruyen al país!!!!!!
maes les tengo otra novedad...
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 83,00.html
Coughlan names names
Mike Coughlan has finally spoken publicly about the Stepneygate scandal, saying he did receive Ferrari's secrets from Nigel Stepney and he did tell McLaren CEO Martin Whitmarsh's about it and even drew drawings for Paddy Lowe, McLaren's engineering director.
As McLaren face the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris today, Coughlan has publicly revealed potentially damning evidence against McLaren, who suspended him after the scandal broke.
Coughlan has revealed that it was Stepney, Ferrari's sacked chief mechanic, who provided him with the Scuderia's secrets back in mid-March of this year. Stepney, though, has denied this all along.
"He is not a close friend," Coughlan told Autosport. "We are acquaintances who are both in the business of Formula One and have maintained cordial relations over the years.
"Stepney contacted me for the first time in five years on March 1st 2007.
"He subsequently telephoned me and informed me that he was very unhappy with the direction his career was taking at Ferrari and Mr Almondo's promotion above him.
"But he did not pass any technical information about Ferrari to me until mid-March 2007."
However, once he did pass that information to Coughlan, the Brit showed it to McLaren, something the Woking team has claimed never happened. The information included designs of Ferrari's floor device, a rear wing flap separator, and a technique to lower the floor of the car.
"Details of the floor device were sent to me by email to my McLaren work email address," Coughlan continued. "I showed the email fleetingly to Martin Whitmarsh, who asked me to take up the issue with Paddy Lowe, McLaren's engineering director.
"I produced a schematic drawing for Lowe, which I understand he forwarded to the FIA. The FIA subsequently declared the floor device as falling outside the regulations.
"Details of the rear wing device were also sent by email to me. I briefly showed this email to Lowe. I understand he reported this to Charlie Whiting of the FIA at the Melbourne Grand Prix, but he was of the opinion that the design was legal.
"As for the information about the subtle engineering technique, I felt it was inconsequential and so I did not show these details to anyone."
An attack of conscience in April though, led to McLaren setting up a firewall to block any emails from Stepney and Coughlan arranging to meet Stepney to ask him to "stop communicating to me any further."
However, that meeting instead led to Stepney handing Coughlan a "bundle of documents which he asked me to look at. My engineering curiosity got the better of me and I foolishly took the documents from him.
"I casually flicked through them over the course of 25 minutes or so the journey took for Stepney to drive me to the airport. I kept hold of the documents and took them home with me. I did not look further at the documents that weekend."
In fact Coughlan is adamant that he ever barely looked at the material handed to him by Stepney.
"I looked at the papers given to me by Stepney on only a few occasions," he stated. "Certainly the time I spent looking at them in total between receiving them and the search at my house on July 3rd was no more than one to two hours.
"I did not look at them in a discursive or methodical way, nor did I look at all of the documents.
"In the limited period of time I spent reviewing the documents, it was not possible to glean anything that would be of material use to McLaren that we did not already know from our own observation and photographs of Ferrari's car."
However, whether the FIA will believe that won't be known until later this afternoon.
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 83,00.html
Coughlan names names
Mike Coughlan has finally spoken publicly about the Stepneygate scandal, saying he did receive Ferrari's secrets from Nigel Stepney and he did tell McLaren CEO Martin Whitmarsh's about it and even drew drawings for Paddy Lowe, McLaren's engineering director.
As McLaren face the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris today, Coughlan has publicly revealed potentially damning evidence against McLaren, who suspended him after the scandal broke.
Coughlan has revealed that it was Stepney, Ferrari's sacked chief mechanic, who provided him with the Scuderia's secrets back in mid-March of this year. Stepney, though, has denied this all along.
"He is not a close friend," Coughlan told Autosport. "We are acquaintances who are both in the business of Formula One and have maintained cordial relations over the years.
"Stepney contacted me for the first time in five years on March 1st 2007.
"He subsequently telephoned me and informed me that he was very unhappy with the direction his career was taking at Ferrari and Mr Almondo's promotion above him.
"But he did not pass any technical information about Ferrari to me until mid-March 2007."
However, once he did pass that information to Coughlan, the Brit showed it to McLaren, something the Woking team has claimed never happened. The information included designs of Ferrari's floor device, a rear wing flap separator, and a technique to lower the floor of the car.
"Details of the floor device were sent to me by email to my McLaren work email address," Coughlan continued. "I showed the email fleetingly to Martin Whitmarsh, who asked me to take up the issue with Paddy Lowe, McLaren's engineering director.
"I produced a schematic drawing for Lowe, which I understand he forwarded to the FIA. The FIA subsequently declared the floor device as falling outside the regulations.
"Details of the rear wing device were also sent by email to me. I briefly showed this email to Lowe. I understand he reported this to Charlie Whiting of the FIA at the Melbourne Grand Prix, but he was of the opinion that the design was legal.
"As for the information about the subtle engineering technique, I felt it was inconsequential and so I did not show these details to anyone."
An attack of conscience in April though, led to McLaren setting up a firewall to block any emails from Stepney and Coughlan arranging to meet Stepney to ask him to "stop communicating to me any further."
However, that meeting instead led to Stepney handing Coughlan a "bundle of documents which he asked me to look at. My engineering curiosity got the better of me and I foolishly took the documents from him.
"I casually flicked through them over the course of 25 minutes or so the journey took for Stepney to drive me to the airport. I kept hold of the documents and took them home with me. I did not look further at the documents that weekend."
In fact Coughlan is adamant that he ever barely looked at the material handed to him by Stepney.
"I looked at the papers given to me by Stepney on only a few occasions," he stated. "Certainly the time I spent looking at them in total between receiving them and the search at my house on July 3rd was no more than one to two hours.
"I did not look at them in a discursive or methodical way, nor did I look at all of the documents.
"In the limited period of time I spent reviewing the documents, it was not possible to glean anything that would be of material use to McLaren that we did not already know from our own observation and photographs of Ferrari's car."
However, whether the FIA will believe that won't be known until later this afternoon.
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Alonso se salva, McLaren no
Fernando Alonso y Lewis Hamilton se han librado de cualquier tipo de sanción después de una negociación de última hora con Bernie Ecclestone, pero McLaren pierde todos los puntos acumulados durante este Mundial y recibe una multa estratosférica de... ¡cien millones de euros!
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/moto ... 35185.html
Fernando Alonso y Lewis Hamilton se han librado de cualquier tipo de sanción después de una negociación de última hora con Bernie Ecclestone, pero McLaren pierde todos los puntos acumulados durante este Mundial y recibe una multa estratosférica de... ¡cien millones de euros!
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/moto ... 35185.html
yoorch escribió:Incriminating `contents` of email exchange publishedrickdohc escribió:Popo escribió:en unos de los supuestos correos PDLR le comenta a FA q el ing de ellos tiene informacion de como es q usan los sistemas de frenos los ferrari para acoplarse mejor a las llantas y q ya lo estan probando (segun lo q pude haber leido entre tantas noticias)rickdohc escribió:utilizada como?
q partes del mp4-22 son de ferrari o se crearon usando algo de esas 768 paginas?
interesante.... me gustaria ver el comunicado oficial de esos correos
Thursday 13th September 2007
The incriminating contents of the email exchange between Fernando Alonso, Pedro de la Rosa and McLaren's chief engineer Paddy Lowe has been published by the British press.
no es oficial pero está interesante
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 04,00.html
de la nota
However, it should be noted that the exchange reported by The Dail Mail is remarkably similiar to the account which appeared last week in the Gazzetta dello Sport. Since then, the journalist, Pino Allievi, has admitted to inventing the quotes
sigo esperando lo oficial
According to our sources, the FIA has scoured the 160 page file, the latest evidence in this affair, with a fine tooth and discovered certain revelations. There are approximately thirty e-mail exchanges between Alonso, de la Rosa and Paddy Lowe (director of engineering at McLaren), and they all contain confidential classified information from Ferrari. It is said that Lowe would have explored the new technical solutions that came from the information that was obtained by Mike Coughlan via Nigel Stepney. Meanwhile, even though de la Rosa and Alonso were well-informed, it appears that they did not take an active part in cementing the new explorations.
The exchange of electronic communication between the 3 men is also said to reveal that Ferrari’s race strategies were known at the beginning of year, in particular for the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne.
It was also made available to automoto365.com that any car, for example the MP4-22, using the stolen data from Ferrari could gain approximately half a second a lap, a figure estimated by Ross Brawn (former technical director of the Scuderia), when questioned by the FIA due to his obvious knowledge on the matter, especially his knowledge of the technical and technological solutions that have most recently been used by Ferrari who have conferred with him in his sabbatical year. Hence Brawns attendance at this morning’s hearing…..
The exchange of electronic communication between the 3 men is also said to reveal that Ferrari’s race strategies were known at the beginning of year, in particular for the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne.
It was also made available to automoto365.com that any car, for example the MP4-22, using the stolen data from Ferrari could gain approximately half a second a lap, a figure estimated by Ross Brawn (former technical director of the Scuderia), when questioned by the FIA due to his obvious knowledge on the matter, especially his knowledge of the technical and technological solutions that have most recently been used by Ferrari who have conferred with him in his sabbatical year. Hence Brawns attendance at this morning’s hearing…..
Lo que acaba de piner Rick contradice a Coughlan en su disculpa pública hacia la su esposa, Ferrari y McLaren, en su primera declaración pública desde que empezó el embrollo...
Mike Coughlan has apologised for his actions in the Stepneygate scandal, saying he "sincerely regrets" accepting Ferrari secrets.
Speaking publicly for the first time in months, Coughlan has admitted to obtaining Ferrari documents from Nigel Stepney, although claims he did little more than page through them.
However, that was enough to put McLaren's participation in the F1 World Championship at risk as well as bring an end to his own future in motorsport.
"I sincerely regret my actions in accepting the information from Stepney and the fact that I did not take more steps to stop him providing this information to me," Coughlan told Autosport.
"With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see how I should have handled matters very differently, but at the time, having found myself in an uncomfortable and difficult position, my indecision as to how best to deal with this led me to fail to take proper action at all.
"I wish to apologise to Ferrari. My passion and enthusiasm for race-car engineering design has caused me to exercise poor judgement in my dealings with Mr Stepney.
"I enormously regret the unfair embarrassment I have caused to McLaren and to my wife.
"I can honestly say that McLaren received no benefit whatsoever in relation to their car or any aspect of its performance and that no use of any of the material has been made in relation to the car."
Mike Coughlan has apologised for his actions in the Stepneygate scandal, saying he "sincerely regrets" accepting Ferrari secrets.
Speaking publicly for the first time in months, Coughlan has admitted to obtaining Ferrari documents from Nigel Stepney, although claims he did little more than page through them.
However, that was enough to put McLaren's participation in the F1 World Championship at risk as well as bring an end to his own future in motorsport.
"I sincerely regret my actions in accepting the information from Stepney and the fact that I did not take more steps to stop him providing this information to me," Coughlan told Autosport.
"With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see how I should have handled matters very differently, but at the time, having found myself in an uncomfortable and difficult position, my indecision as to how best to deal with this led me to fail to take proper action at all.
"I wish to apologise to Ferrari. My passion and enthusiasm for race-car engineering design has caused me to exercise poor judgement in my dealings with Mr Stepney.
"I enormously regret the unfair embarrassment I have caused to McLaren and to my wife.
"I can honestly say that McLaren received no benefit whatsoever in relation to their car or any aspect of its performance and that no use of any of the material has been made in relation to the car."
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McLaren Chucked Out Of Constructors' Title, Drivers Free To Fight For Title
Breaking news from Paris: McLaren have been thrown out of the Constructors' Championship but both Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton will be allowed to compete for the Drivers' Championship. In addition, McLaren have been fined a record-breaking $100m...
Breaking news from Paris: McLaren have been thrown out of the Constructors' Championship but both Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton will be allowed to compete for the Drivers' Championship. In addition, McLaren have been fined a record-breaking $100m...
Y esto es de ITV que son 100% británicos y por ende McLarencistas... pero nuevamente no hacen referencia a comunicados oficiales.
The FIA World Motor Sport Council has disqualified McLaren from the 2007 constructors' championship and fined the team $100 million, but Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso can continue to battle for the drivers' crown.
After a day of deliberations at the hearing in Paris, the governing body decided to punish the team for breaking the sporting regulations by possessing confidential Ferrari data.
But while the decision to exclude McLaren from the constructors' contest hands that title to Ferrari, McLaren's drivers have not received any penalty.
More details to follow...
The FIA World Motor Sport Council has disqualified McLaren from the 2007 constructors' championship and fined the team $100 million, but Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso can continue to battle for the drivers' crown.
After a day of deliberations at the hearing in Paris, the governing body decided to punish the team for breaking the sporting regulations by possessing confidential Ferrari data.
But while the decision to exclude McLaren from the constructors' contest hands that title to Ferrari, McLaren's drivers have not received any penalty.
More details to follow...
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Creo que estaban tratando de quitar un poco de atencion y de tensón del caso que enfrentan... aquí hay algo al respecto.Sauron escribió:Y que será lo que dijo Ron Dennis de Renault
Un portavoz de la FIA ha confirmado las especulaciones de los últimos días de que McLaren ha intentado arrastrar a Renault en el escándalo de espionaje que vivirá su próximo capítulo mañana jueves en la reunión del Consejo Mundial del Motor.
Tras los insistentes rumores de que Ron Dennis está en posesión de una información explosiva que dejaría en una situación muy delicada a Renault, así como también a Ferrari, la FIA ha confirmado en parte esta noticia.
En declaraciones a la ITV, un portavoz de la FIA ha confirmado que 'cierta información relativa al equipo Renault F1' ha sido presentada en los últimos días por McLaren, justo horas antes de que el equipo de Woking se enfrente a una sesión del Consejo Mundial del Motor en la que podría ser duramente sancionado.
Se cree que la información en poder de McLaren relativa a Renault y Ferrari es de naturaleza técnica más que específicamente relacionada con el escándalo de espionaje.
"Podemos confirmar que los abogados de McLaren nos han aportado una información en relación al equipo Renault F1," indicaba el portavoz de la FIA.
"Pero podemos confirmar que el equipo Renault no forma parte de ninguna de nuestras investigaciones al equipo McLaren por su violación del artículo 151c del Código Deportivo Internacional.
"La FIA le ha recordado a McLaren que en la vista del Consejo Mundial del Motor del próximo jueves se tratará exclusivamente la nueva evidencia de la que se dispone en la investigación de su caso. Cualquier otro tema será tratado como un proceso por separado.
"Renault F1 está al día de todo y nos ha comunicado su disponibilidad a cooperar."
El jefe del equipo Renault Flavio Briatore comentaba en declaraciones a La Gazzetta dello Sport: "(Dennis está) lanzando piedras hacia todos sitios. Nosotros estamos tranquilos, no tenemos problema."
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